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 What Are You Watching?
Ashe
 Posted: Dec 19 2011, 05:45 AM
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I've seen this show, and it's ok.... To play devil's advocate, I believe they do it that way because they really need to. If they have a case where someone has submitted say video, and they can prove that that video can be faked and there is no other proof available to collaborate it, then they have to say it's faked until more proof is forthcoming.

But I do see where you guys are coming from too. It's just in this day and age where the technology is so great, things like that can easily be faked, and they are getting harder to spot the fakes.
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Feb 11 2012, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Ashe @ Dec 19 2011, 04:45 AM)
I've seen this show, and it's ok.... To play devil's advocate, I believe they do it that way because they really need to. If they have a case where someone has submitted say video, and they can prove that that video can be faked and there is no other proof available to collaborate it, then they have to say it's faked until more proof is forthcoming.

But I do see where you guys are coming from too. It's just in this day and age where the technology is so great, things like that can easily be faked, and they are getting harder to spot the fakes.

It's not about proof, their mentality is that if they can fake it, it is fake. Numerous Bigfoot sightings have been proven to be men in suits, but that doesn't mean every Bigfoot sighting is a man in a suit, especially considering how Bigfoot's history dates back hundreds of years across multiple continents. Hell, the Bigfoot legend is older than the United States itself.

I also severely question the team's integrity after the whole "Nightly News Alien" fiasco...
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Ashe
 Posted: Feb 12 2012, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Feb 11 2012, 03:20 PM)
QUOTE (Ashe @ Dec 19 2011, 04:45 AM)
I've seen this show, and it's ok.... To play devil's advocate, I believe they do it that way because they really need to. If they have a case where someone has submitted say video, and they can prove that that video can be faked and there is no other proof available to collaborate it, then they have to say it's faked until more proof is forthcoming.

But I do see where you guys are coming from too. It's just in this day and age where the technology is so great, things like that can easily be faked, and they are getting harder to spot the fakes.

It's not about proof, their mentality is that if they can fake it, it is fake. Numerous Bigfoot sightings have been proven to be men in suits, but that doesn't mean every Bigfoot sighting is a man in a suit, especially considering how Bigfoot's history dates back hundreds of years across multiple continents. Hell, the Bigfoot legend is older than the United States itself.

I also severely question the team's integrity after the whole "Nightly News Alien" fiasco...


Once again, playing devils advocate, they take the stance that if they can fake it then it's fake because that is the standard at this moment. If it can be faked and look the same then until they can find more evidence that would back up the claim of it being legitimate they have to say it's fake. Almost all paranormal experts go by this standard.

As for Bigfoot, well there have been so many that were faked and badly faked at that, that most just don't believe anymore and will automatically say "fake". Bigfoot was/is most likely some throwback critter that everyone thought extinct, but has survived in small numbers, like the Coelacanth.
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Apr 18 2012, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Ashe @ Feb 12 2012, 05:28 AM)
Once again, playing devils advocate, they take the stance that if they can fake  it then it's fake because that is the standard at this moment. If it can be faked and look the same then until they can find more evidence that would back up the claim of it being legitimate they have to say it's fake. Almost all paranormal experts go by this standard.

There have dozens, possibly hundreds, of movies made centering around shark attacks and the visual effects of many of the attacks (take the one in Into The Blue as an example) look quite convincing. Does that mean that since Hollywood can replicate a shark attack, all other shark attacks that have occurred in reality are hoaxes?

Car accidents are staged for films and look no different from real car accidents that occur in reality. I suppose since Hollywood can replicate a car accident, all of those that have occurred in reality are also fake?

The point I've been trying to make here is that just about anything can be replicated if one has the resources, but that doesn't necessarily mean the original event is fake or staged.
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Ashe
 Posted: Apr 18 2012, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Apr 18 2012, 07:18 AM)
QUOTE (Ashe @ Feb 12 2012, 05:28 AM)
Once again, playing devils advocate, they take the stance that if they can fake  it then it's fake because that is the standard at this moment. If it can be faked and look the same then until they can find more evidence that would back up the claim of it being legitimate they have to say it's fake. Almost all paranormal experts go by this standard.

There have dozens, possibly hundreds, of movies made centering around shark attacks and the visual effects of many of the attacks (take the one in Into The Blue as an example) look quite convincing. Does that mean that since Hollywood can replicate a shark attack, all other shark attacks that have occurred in reality are hoaxes?

Car accidents are staged for films and look no different from real car accidents that occur in reality. I suppose since Hollywood can replicate a car accident, all of those that have occurred in reality are also fake?

The point I've been trying to make here is that just about anything can be replicated if one has the resources, but that doesn't necessarily mean the original event is fake or staged.


You miss the point and your examples really don't relate to the situation.... Shark attacks and car accidents have nothing to do with hauntings or boogedy boos tongue.gif

Because of all the fakes out there they basically have to take that stance. If they can reproduce the exact same thing themselves then until there is more credible proof they have to say it's fake. You can blame all the idiots who want to get their 15 minutes of fame by perpetrating a hoax to get it. A lot of damage has been done to the field of paranormal research by these same idiots. It's made everyone a skeptic and unbelieving, even in the face of credible proof.

There are always going to be these types out there, which is really sad. I've always had a high interest in anything occult or paranormal and wish things would change. Only recently with the new advances of technology have small steps been made towards legitimizing it.
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Apr 18 2012, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (Ashe @ Apr 18 2012, 03:46 AM)
QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Apr 18 2012, 07:18 AM)
QUOTE (Ashe @ Feb 12 2012, 05:28 AM)
Once again, playing devils advocate, they take the stance that if they can fake  it then it's fake because that is the standard at this moment. If it can be faked and look the same then until they can find more evidence that would back up the claim of it being legitimate they have to say it's fake. Almost all paranormal experts go by this standard.

There have dozens, possibly hundreds, of movies made centering around shark attacks and the visual effects of many of the attacks (take the one in Into The Blue as an example) look quite convincing. Does that mean that since Hollywood can replicate a shark attack, all other shark attacks that have occurred in reality are hoaxes?

Car accidents are staged for films and look no different from real car accidents that occur in reality. I suppose since Hollywood can replicate a car accident, all of those that have occurred in reality are also fake?

The point I've been trying to make here is that just about anything can be replicated if one has the resources, but that doesn't necessarily mean the original event is fake or staged.


You miss the point and your examples really don't relate to the situation.... Shark attacks and car accidents have nothing to do with hauntings or boogedy boos tongue.gif

Because of all the fakes out there they basically have to take that stance. If they can reproduce the exact same thing themselves then until there is more credible proof they have to say it's fake. You can blame all the idiots who want to get their 15 minutes of fame by perpetrating a hoax to get it. A lot of damage has been done to the field of paranormal research by these same idiots. It's made everyone a skeptic and unbelieving, even in the face of credible proof.

There are always going to be these types out there, which is really sad. I've always had a high interest in anything occult or paranormal and wish things would change. Only recently with the new advances of technology have small steps been made towards legitimizing it.

The point I'm making, however, is quite related to the situation. If I had the resources and were to make an exact replica of a paranormal entity caught on tape, it in no way means the original entity captured on video is fake, it just means that I can replicate it via CGI or other little tricks.
^
Ashe
 Posted: Apr 18 2012, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Apr 18 2012, 07:56 AM)
QUOTE (Ashe @ Apr 18 2012, 03:46 AM)
QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Apr 18 2012, 07:18 AM)
QUOTE (Ashe @ Feb 12 2012, 05:28 AM)
Once again, playing devils advocate, they take the stance that if they can fake  it then it's fake because that is the standard at this moment. If it can be faked and look the same then until they can find more evidence that would back up the claim of it being legitimate they have to say it's fake. Almost all paranormal experts go by this standard.

There have dozens, possibly hundreds, of movies made centering around shark attacks and the visual effects of many of the attacks (take the one in Into The Blue as an example) look quite convincing. Does that mean that since Hollywood can replicate a shark attack, all other shark attacks that have occurred in reality are hoaxes?

Car accidents are staged for films and look no different from real car accidents that occur in reality. I suppose since Hollywood can replicate a car accident, all of those that have occurred in reality are also fake?

The point I've been trying to make here is that just about anything can be replicated if one has the resources, but that doesn't necessarily mean the original event is fake or staged.


You miss the point and your examples really don't relate to the situation.... Shark attacks and car accidents have nothing to do with hauntings or boogedy boos tongue.gif

Because of all the fakes out there they basically have to take that stance. If they can reproduce the exact same thing themselves then until there is more credible proof they have to say it's fake. You can blame all the idiots who want to get their 15 minutes of fame by perpetrating a hoax to get it. A lot of damage has been done to the field of paranormal research by these same idiots. It's made everyone a skeptic and unbelieving, even in the face of credible proof.

There are always going to be these types out there, which is really sad. I've always had a high interest in anything occult or paranormal and wish things would change. Only recently with the new advances of technology have small steps been made towards legitimizing it.

The point I'm making, however, is quite related to the situation. If I had the resources and were to make an exact replica of a paranormal entity caught on tape, it in no way means the original entity captured on video is fake, it just means that I can replicate it via CGI or other little tricks.


But anyone with money can do that. The standard is if you can replicate it without going to that extreme and using what the average person would have access to then they have to deem it fake.

Hollywood and the rich who can gain access to such resources can do just about anything... shoot they just had a whole performance with Tupac via a holographic image and the dude looked real. And he's been dead what.... 0ver 10 years?
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Jun 24 2012, 12:04 PM
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Look, it's just... The way they approach and examine their cases---even Jael---it implies very strongly to me that they're biased in favor of proving them to be hoaxes. GH and DT both do essentially the exact same thing by looking for logical explanations for what they're investigating, but nothing they do has ever made me suspect that they were predetermined to disprove. The way Jael approaches cases on FoF is almost a complete 180 compared to when she's on DT.

And as I've said previously, I really began to question the FoF team's integrity after the Nightly News Alien episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBF-GJL3tcs...ch_response_rev

Watch that video footage and explain to me how these supposed "experts" couldn't see that the supposed "alien's" shadow was facing the complete opposite direction compared to the one of the woman in the foreground. It practically screams "CGI" at you. Yet they flew 3 people to Argentina just so someone could tell them it was fake.
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Ashe
 Posted: Jun 25 2012, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Jun 24 2012, 03:04 PM)
Look, it's just... The way they approach and examine their cases---even Jael---it implies very strongly to me that they're biased in favor of proving them to be hoaxes. GH and DT both do essentially the exact same thing by looking for logical explanations for what they're investigating, but nothing they do has ever made me suspect that they were predetermined to disprove. The way Jael approaches cases on FoF is almost a complete 180 compared to when she's on DT.

And as I've said previously, I really began to question the FoF team's integrity after the Nightly News Alien episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBF-GJL3tcs...ch_response_rev

Watch that video footage and explain to me how these supposed "experts" couldn't see that the supposed "alien's" shadow was facing the complete opposite direction compared to the one of the woman in the foreground. It practically screams "CGI" at you. Yet they flew 3 people to Argentina just so someone could tell them it was fake.


I wouldn't call it biased, but realism. Fact is that most of that kind of stuff is hoaxed or has a very reasonable explanation for happening. Jason and Grant from GH have said many times, they go into an investigation looking to disprove the claims. It seems the logical route, at least to me, to go. If you can disprove it then you can move on to the next and not waste your time, but if you can't then you can put more time and effort into seeing if it may be true.

As for that clip, I could not for the life of me see the shadows on the people to compare it to the "alien". But come on.... they filmed that and no one saw it, no one looked at the footage before airing it and didn't see it..... that seems pretty unrealistic..... I'd cry hoax myself right there.... http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Resident%20Evil%20Final%20Days/rofl.gif
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Jun 25 2012, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (Ashe @ Jun 25 2012, 04:25 AM)
I wouldn't call it biased, but realism. Fact is that most of that kind of stuff is hoaxed or has a very reasonable explanation for happening. Jason and Grant from GH have said many times, they go into an investigation looking to disprove the claims. It seems the logical route, at least to me, to go. If you can disprove it then you can move on to the next and not waste your time, but if you can't then you can put more time and effort into seeing if it may be true.

But the thing is that the FoF team seem predetermined to prove hoaxes. I've watched the show numerous times and seen their side by side comparisons. Often times, their recreations only vaguely resemble what they're recreating, yet they refer to them as "perfect matches". Their attitudes approaching many of these cases just scream bias to me.

QUOTE
As for that clip, I could not for the life of me see the shadows on the people to compare it to the "alien". But come on.... they filmed that and no one saw it, no one looked at the footage before airing it and didn't see it..... that seems pretty unrealistic..... I'd cry hoax myself right there.... http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Resident%20Evil%20Final%20Days/rofl.gif

Look closely at the side of her face and clothes on the left side of the screen, you can see shadowed areas on her, which tells you that the sun is over her left shoulder and behind her back. That's what I'm talking about.

Even ignoring the shadows, just look at the alien... I've seen far more believable CGI done by amateur enthusiasts on on their home PCs!
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Ashe
 Posted: Jun 25 2012, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Jun 25 2012, 08:52 AM)

But the thing is that the FoF team seem predetermined to prove hoaxes. I've watched the show numerous times and seen their side by side comparisons. Often times, their recreations only vaguely resemble what they're recreating, yet they refer to them as "perfect matches". Their attitudes approaching many of these cases just scream bias to me.


It's very possible they may be biased. I've not seen many of the episodes myself, but I would think that they'd have to give it to "faked" if anything they test comes close because they are never going to be able to perfectly recreate an event 100% And if it comes close for them, then it's possible. That seems to be the standard for now more often than not. Even slightly debunking something is enough to give doubt. Doesn't make it right, just that it is.... http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Resident%20Evil%20Final%20Days/sCo_idk.gif


QUOTE (Last Spartan @ Jun25 2012, 08:52 AM)
Look closely at the side of her face and clothes on the left side of the screen, you can see shadowed areas on her, which tells you that the sun is over her left shoulder and behind her back. That's what I'm talking about.

Even ignoring the shadows, just look at the alien... I've seen far more believable CGI done by amateur enthusiasts on on their home PCs!


I think I saw it, looks like the shadows of the other things are coming forward, while the shadow on that "alien" is more towards the back. And can't argue with the faked look either, it don't look real. And I believe the news crew or whoever was doing that interview was in on it, 'cause you can't tell me with that not being a "live" broadcast that no one picked that up. Someone else would have seen it when beforehand.
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Walker killer
 Posted: Sep 16 2012, 08:40 PM
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I never cease to be amazed with someone can do with photoshop these days. But that is not the point, thr point ash is trying to make I think is that just because something can be faked doesn't mean it is. I have experienced hauntings in the past in the house I grew up in & being a practical person Incan tell you that doors don't open of their own accord, objects don't simply walk to other places on their own power... Someone puts them there, it's just that person happens to be dead lol.

I like the debunking part but then the ghost hunters who are admitted sceptics, will even admit when they can't explain something as will the ghost adventures guys who are more hard core believers then the GHC will say when something is debunked.
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Rick Grimes
 Posted: Sep 17 2012, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (Dragoness1982 @ Sep 16 2012, 07:40 PM)
But that is not the point, thr point ash is trying to make I think is that just because something can be faked doesn't mean it is.

No, that's the point I'm trying to make. tongue.gif
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Ashe
 Posted: Sep 17 2012, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (Dragoness1982 @ Sep 16 2012, 11:40 PM)
I never cease to be amazed with someone can do with photoshop these days. But that is not the point, thr point ash is trying to make I think is that just because something can be faked doesn't mean it is. I have experienced hauntings in the past in the house I grew up in & being a practical person Incan tell you that doors don't open of their own accord, objects don't simply walk to other places on their own power... Someone puts them there, it's just that person happens to be dead lol.

I like the debunking part but then the ghost hunters who are admitted sceptics, will even admit when they can't explain something as will the ghost adventures guys who are more hard core believers then the GHC will say when something is debunked.


Ghost Adventurers or the "cut and runners" as I like to refer to them are absolute MORONS!! And quite frankly, I think they fake most of their stuff. No matter the location they go to, no matter the level of supposed paranormal activity, they ALWAYS seem to find evidence. And generally the evidence they get is usually quite questionable, especially their evp stuff, they are always collecting them and saying it says this or that, but when you listen you either hear absolutely nothing or just noise. Very little of what they get is legitimate I think....
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Walker killer
 Posted: Sep 17 2012, 09:59 AM
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@Spartan I'm sorry about that just read the posts back :/ lol
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